Friday, January 15, 2010

Will The CFTC Actually Regulate Gold and Silver Futures Positions?

Short answer:  "No."

If you read thru the following analysis from the Financial Times and assume that the CFTC might adopt similar rules for gold/silver trading, then the conclusion is that the CFTC will do nothing more than spray Godzilla with some bug spray.  This would be 100% consistent with everything else the Obama Administration has done with regard to reform which, "appears" to protect the public against predatory big financial firms and corporations, but does nothing to actually Change the corrupt reality.  Here are some key points:

"Thursday’s CFTC proposals on position limits in the energy markets were largely seen as a ‘light touch’ by industry voices. This is because, quantifiably speaking, they set loose limits that hardly went beyond those already enforced by exchanges in the form of accountability limits"

"First, they appear to have ruled that passive long-only funds (along with funds generally) would never be eligible for exemptions.

Second, they initiated a “limited risk management exemption” for swap-dealers who were previously eligible for bona fide hedger exemptions;

Third, they appear to classify the speculative operations of bona fide hedgers and swap-dealers completely separately;

Meanwhile, it could also have a bearing on the prop desks of banking institutions — although it’s not clear to what extent a physical presence on the prop side could offset the restrictions."

Here's the link:        The CFTC: Nothing Is But What Is Not

My conclusion is that the CFTC, in a manner consistent with all Government actions w/regard to big banks, will put in some kind of enhanced regulation that will be nothing more than form with very little substance. In fact, if the above analysis is accurate, it would appear that regulation would be headed in the direction of making it even more difficult for a big speculative fund to take on a big concentrated long position as a way to speculate against the big bank shorts. It also looks like there will be loopholes large enough to drive an army of tanks thru. I stand by my call that the CFTC will do nothing to stop the large concentrated short positions in gold and silver - nothwistanding some form of regulation that does nothing more than patronize the public but does nothing of substance.

In fact, my new expectation is that any CFTC regulation in the metals will make it more difficult for speculators to trade and make it even easier for the big banks to rape and pillage the gold and silver paper markets.  Sorry Ted. (Everyone should read the 1st comment posted below)


  1. This is absolutely brilliant insight from a reader who emailed an analysis of what the CFTC is doing and what they have "up their sleave." It is deadly accurate except that I disagree with the view on mining stocks:

    By this statement, it appears that the CFTC is going to limit long positions. As if paper oil, gold or silver in limitless quantities dumped on the spot market is not sufficient to suppress the price, now the U.S. Government is going to limit the amount of buying that can be done. This is what I expected, and it's what we got....This will be expanded to the precious metal markets and put the spot price in lock down...I have been commenting for some time on the expansion of the open interest in precious metals. This OI has not liquidated, and continues to grow, and it must be terrifying Wall St. banks who hold the short side of the OI, but have little actual metal to fulfill their delivery obligations. The new position limits will likely force a liquidation, thereby letting the naked shorts out of their fraudulent positions. This strategy is the only logical strategy for this fraudulent market. The strategy is logical, but underlines how fraudulent the futures markets have become. Remember, futures are what generate the spot price. Here's the problem: silver is already below its total cost of production, and gold is barely above its cost of production. Both are becoming scarce, with production stagnant or declining.

    How will the East respond to this farce? My guess is export bans. Position limits also severely limit the amount of gold that can be bought though taking delivery of futures contracts. This puts in question the viability of futures from the long side. I mean, buyers have known the system is a farce, and have been using it to buy cheapened physical. I think that strategy is ending. Gold and silver are entering lock down just before the US dollar hyperinflates. This will destroy the mines, and only fools will trade real metal for paper dollars. What a mess, and it's all so utterly predictable.....! The next step is a black market in gold. The price of real gold and paper gold are about to separate and head in opposite directions. Recall a quote by "Another" in 1998: "You will be at the end of a long line of people selling gold shares." Remember, gold and silver mines are forced to sell real ounces at COMEX spot prices and I predict they are headed for values that won't keep the mines open.....

    Meanwhile, lets watch what the new CFTC regualations do to the oil price, and then watch what the world oil exporters do to the Americans for setting this mess up in the first place. Recall that most oil exporters already dislike America......

  2. More lip service from the CFTC. I said before they will never touch the short side because that position is the USG fully funded by their printing press. All of the corruption will continue right up to total collapse.

    Joe M.

  3. Just more kabuki theater... ho hum-- nothing to see here, move along kids. I still don't get why Ted Butler thinks these guys will do the right thing-- They're all part of the problem.

  4. Dave, why do you believe your commenter is incorrect about mines? If they have to sell their metals at rigged futures prices, rigged downward, it seems he could be right.

  5. @U6: most mining companies I invest in/trade/research have operations all over the world. the commentor's theory is based on there being a rediculously low rigged price on the Comex and that the Govt forces domestic mining companies to sell at that price by not allowing them to export.

    HOWEVER, the global price of gold will be on the moon. just think about what it signals to the global market if the Comex deteriorates into what is envisioned. Moreover, the Comex will become irrelevant w/respect to the global gold market. China is already making sure of that with their advancement of metals trading in HK and their announcement to move all their offshore-held gold to HK.

    To the extent that domestic mining companies have international operations and to the extent that our system were to become that dictatorial/totalitarian, these companies would just spin off their international operations. you'll get shares of that company that trade on international exchanges free from U.S. control and the price of gold will be at prices you can't imagine right now.

    On the other hand, if our system morphs into that kind of totalitarian Government, most of us will have left this country by then anyway and what happens here will be irrelevant. I know someone who is going down to Costa Rica next month to investigate living there.

  6. Dave: I'm sure you know or have read about most of the stuff in this article: "Trilateral Plan to Corner World Gold Market?" But I thought it might interest you anyway. Plus, this Web site -- The August Review (Global Elite Research Center) -- which I recently discovered, looks like a pretty decent source of the Bigger Picture. It looks like they've been researching the "global plans" of the global elite for a long time.

    Your work is wonderful. Please keep it up! And all the best to you.

  7. @Anonymous - your comments are greatly appreciated - thank you.

    I am very aware of the One World/One Govt theories - and have been since 2001, and I do believe that the western hemisphere anglo-elites like Rockefeller, Rothschild, etc are involved in making that attempt, but I don't believe that they can pull it off (for a lot of reasons I won't go into and probably aren't good one LOL).

    I have not seen that website though and I'll definitely take a look at it.

    If you have not watched it, you should definitely watch this interview with Aaron Russo. It is a huge tragedy for everyone who understands what is happening that he passed away pre-maturely - I think he could have made a big difference in the fight to save our system. Here's the link:

  8. so, is it safe for me to continue to go long GC futures or should i liquidate those long positions now?

  9. Dave: THANKS a ton for that link. Just watched it and all I can say is -- EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH THAT INTERVIEW. From what I know, it's dead on, and I'm sure Russo did actually get that devastating information from Nick Rockefeller. I'm going to now go and watch the complete interview. (I didn't know about Russo before, will go check out all his stuff.)

    All the best, NewMan

  10. Dave: If you'd like to know more about how these Illuminati (they usually call themselves "The Family") REALLY operate, Google "Svali". She was a "(mind) programmer" for them in San Diego and is now on the run. It will blow your mind.

  11. @anonymous: if you are playing gold futures, make sure you have enough room on margin to weather a hit down to $1000. I don't think we're going to ever see $1000 again but I think that's worse case if the Govt tries to engineer a "hit" the way Paulson hit commodities/gold/silver in June. If you can weather that kind of smack, you will make shitload to the upside because we should see at least $1500 this year and I'm probably low.

  12. I don’t understand these posts. I thought the problem was JPM and GS were using their unlimited positions on the COMEX to sell down the market at key junctures to make money. GS and JPM could do this because it didn’t cost them anything. At its simplest all they had to do was scare a few hedgies through unlimited short selling and money came because the hedgies couldn’t compete with unlimited free capital and ran away liquidating their positions. In effect all the other members of the COMEX are, were lending JPM and GS unlimited sums of money, without restraint, to gamble because they underwrite the debts of the whole exchange.

    In contrast the hedgies are capital regulated and have to put up real money at margin either through their credit rating and/or a cash margin. Basically, it’s a Monopoly Game with one group owning the board and everyone else paying rent. Position limits don’t affect hedgies because they can always put up more real money and change the game to the extent of that money.

    If position limits are applied to GS or JPM, however light or small, they represent a game changing event. This is a step that creates a wall that they cannot go beyond and in trading creating a wall is only a short step from someone bouncing you off it. Although the limits are light and weak the only thing that determines them being reached is the amount of money the hedgies are prepared to throw at it.

    If GS and JPM are exempted then it is no change until the Central Banks break the gold cartel in London. If GS and JPM are not exempted then it is no change until the OI reaches a level that they are bounced of the position limits or they start putting up more real money of their own with other brokers. in any event once the position limit has been reached the Monopoly Game ceases.

    Can you tell me what it is that I don't understand?

  13. Dave: Thanks. I'm sitting on physical gold and a lot of GDX. No futures. So it's GDX I need to worry about to the downside. All the best.

  14. James Sinclair "The Skinny on Gold, Silver and Position Limits:

    It is a matter of NO concern. In the unlikely case the CFTC had any success in limiting positions (most unlikely as deemed hedgers would be exempted) it would be bullish to price.

    The paper exchange is where the price of gold is manipulated daily and generally that price is lower. Anything to emasculate paper gold trading would serve to emasculate the platform for manipulation.

    Close the COMEX. Gold will still trade, and better.

    Forget all the tomes being written on the subject."

  15. re: sinclair's comment: I agree with his view except to the extent that the CFTC apply position limits, they will only, for all intent and purposes, apply to the large fund speculator category. The regulations will be written such that bona fide and non-bona fide hedgers (GS/JPM fall into the latter) which are in the commercial category will be exempted or have very weak position limits. This would create an even more lopsided playing field tilted in favor of the manipulators.

    Having said that, essentially Sinclair is making the case - and I fully agree with this - that some time in the future the Comex paper market will become irrelevant and the paper price will be ignored on the global market. This will be that case as more buyers chase the dwindling supply of gold AND demand physical delivery.

  16. @anonymous re: JPM/GS/position limits. It sounds like you have your arms around most of it. Read/re-read the 1st comment post above. That should address your inquiry. The basic idea is that JPM/GS can pretty much short as much as they want and not be held accountable because of the margin issue you mentioned which affects the ability of large specs to ride out a price pullback AND because they know they'll only have to deliver a very small percentage of the ocntracts they are short.

    The reason any positions limits which ::might:: be enforced by the CFTC would be a complete joke is that, like with oil contracts, they'll implement loopholes that will allow JPM/GS to get around the limits. BUT, if a big hedge fund were to decide to take on JPM/GS from the long side, the position limits would apply and be enforced. It would make it impossible for huge hedge fund to take on JPM/GS.

    Hopefully, one of these a very large buyer will get long like 50k contracts and then demand delivery. That would bust the Comex because that would be 5 million ounces and the Comex only has around 2mm ounces that are available for delivery.

    See my comment just above this one and that should address where I think all this headed.

  17. I still do not understand the COMEX is owned by the members who underwrite the trading and there are at least 16 major banks on this list. JPM and GS have been gaming the system for years particularly recently in oil where they have even gone into the physical storage. The problem in oil is long manipulation leading to the Chinese refusing to honour oil derivative contracts.

    The CTFC operates the market in favour of the members of which two, GS and JPM, are threatening the existance of this market trading by placing huge bets using all the members credit for which they are not paying. This can not be approved of by the more conservative members of the COMEX who must see default coming and whose internal auditors and credit committees must be asking questions. Even little State managers of pension funds are questioning JPM as a security agent because of their declining credit situation. I cannot believe that for instance UBS's credit department is not working over time on the structural risks posed by the COMEX on it's unlimited trading guarantees. HSBC has even left the COMEX as depository agent, why? if not for the credit risk associated with these current crazy trading positions.

    Chilton has said he favours position limits for silver, why would suggest that those postions be only imposed against the longs? This would hasten the day when the COMEX goes into default. It is an act of insanity.

    I don't understand why you the CTFC would imbroil itself in lenghty litigation by deliberately ploughing itself into default on a major market. Surely this is part of a measured slow pull back form these extremes not a reipe for further excesses?

    I may be missing something and the whole of the CTFC may as well as all the bulge trading houses may have developed a kamakazi death wish, but somehow I don't see it.

    Could you explain it to me? What's in it for say HSBC or UBs to continue with the current structure?

  18. Here's what you are missing: for many years GS/JPM were able to control the price of gold and manipulate the Comex at their whim on the assumption that the market would never ask for physical delivery.

    The two other banks you just mentioned are part of the bullion bank consortium. HSBC is the custodian for GLD, is a major gold/silver custodian for the Comex. All of them have leased out thousands of tons of gold at much lower prices over the past 15-20 years. They are ALL inexorably short 1000's of tons of physical gold via leasing. There's no way they can ever get that amount back if they were ever called on it by the Central Banks that leased it out. THEY ALL HAVE A STAKE IN KEEPING THE PRICE OF GOLD LOW.

    You must be assuming the CFTC will implement rules that require the bullion banks to liquidate their short positions. They will not do that - as per the 1st comment above, they will embed loopholes and exemptions such that the ONLY entities which CAN'T take on large positions are the big funds who want to take on the shorts.

    Eventually the Comex will be screwed anyway because enough buyers will want physical delivery and the Comex won't be able to deliver and they'll change the rules - just like the did during the Hunt run on silver - and allow the shorts to settle in cash. They've already moved in that direction by allowing the shorts to settle in GLD/SLV if the long side agrees. Look it up.

    In terms of delivery problems, my fund experienced this back in April on a silver delivery. It took 7 weeks PAST last delivery day on the April silver contract for us to get delivery. We would have busted their balls legally if we were bigger and had the resources. HSBC was the counterparty. Our delivery was for a couple bars. The guy who operates our depository told us we were lucky, he had at the time bigger customers waiting for bigger deliveries for a lot longer.

    Physical gold/silver is running low. Soon this will all come to a head and the rules will be changed so that the banks still make a pile.

  19. No I don't think the CFTC will impliment rules that will require the bullion banks to liquidate their short positions. I don't think regulators or auditors work like that. When an auditor or a regulator says they are going to "kick the tyres" experience has taught me that the wheels were stolen two years ago and engine has been missing for eighteen months. The only reason that people are now concerned about the state of the vehicle is that the kids on the street keep setting it on fire.

    Likewise the fact that the CTFC is now going to have public hearings into the gold and silver market tells me that by March the flames from the COMEX and the LME will be visible in Beijing, Tokyo and Moscow. The purpose of holding the hearings will be a be PR campaign to avoid litigation for constructive collusion in the price rigging.

    I believe that in the 3rd quarter JPM's deposits dropped by $102b and it's non tied cash by $33b or 60%. Non tied cash is the primary source of Tier 1 capital for bank solvency purposes and when a bank loses 60% of it alarm bells start ringing around the world.

    As I said the wheels are going ($102b of deposits the life blood of a bank) and the engine has been hocked to the tune of $33b of non tied Tier 1 capital which has had to be put up to secure lending/credit or trading facilities.

    This does not look like a bank taking on all comers this looks like a bank that is in the process of being stripped before the kids set it on fire.

  20. Dave,

    Bix Weir has an interesting article up at the cafe. He contends the CFTC is doing a CYA just before the manipulation ends and the Gold/Silver markets blow up.

    I am inclined to believe what he is saying because I have always believed that once they lose control of the PM's it is game over for the USD. We may be on the verge of the final crisis.

    Joe M.

  21. I have always considered the CYA element w/regard to the timing of a CFTC action to restrict position size, however at this point there's just too much public evidence that shows they were warned about a blow-up for the last 8 years. I firmly believe IF any regulations are implemented, they will be implemented in a way which restricts long positions but exempts the commercials with "hedger status" loopholes and other rediculous exemptions.

    I also think the physical market is on the verge of overwhelming paper anyway the biggest risk for the Comex is that it becomes irrelevant.

  22. JPM is losing it's trading facilities, deposits are down and the existing facilites are demanding cash margin cover. As the contracts roll over on the LBMA JPM won't be able to renew them and their spreads will become noticeably wider in London as the brokers will intermediate their declining credit. To mitigate and avoid this JPM will increase the extreme position in the COT's on the COMEX as the contracts roll away in London. Access to the COMEX is free and unlimited without margin requirements. JPM will use and abuse this facility and will relie on the brokers to intermediate the credit between the exchanges where JPM can no longer act. The daily trading pattern between London and New York will become increasingly extreme. JPM will have to increase it's extreme positions because as the exisitng lines roll away the replacement trading contracts will be relatively more and ore expensive. This will continue until it is stopped probably by a general crisis at JPM.

  23. @Anonymous - that is great color. I think the Fed will help JPM behind the scenes before it becomes too extreme but I agree with your analysis.

  24. As Bill Murphy says JPM is too big to bail. The strain put on the Fed Primary dealers has caused the Fed to intervene directly; it is a small step between this and mainstream recognition that the Fed’s QE policy is beyond Argentine levels.

    There is no difference between the Fed and JPM they are both owned by the same families as is the whole central banking system. This system is in collapse after 400 years. Derivatives when I stopped bothering even looking, showed in total (debt and equity) $1.4 quadrillion of exposure. Of this according to the BIS 82% were written through a maximum ceiling on the dollar and 52% through an maximium implied gold price. In the contract financial models the implied prices were the USDX 82 and gold at $1,000. Both limits have been breached and the contracts have been rewritten into the future preserving these rates. The only statistical model that can now properly explain the balance sheet value of derivatives that underwrite the main central clearing banks of the Western world is random walk. The Chaos Theory financial model for these contracts does not allow any other outcome but total collapse of the portfolios. We are now in a managed collapse scenario.

    The Fed can only intervene in limited ways to bail out JPM because a Bear Stearns or Lehman Bros rescue would destroy the dollar. This is the death of a 1,000 cuts not fast but by slow deterioration of JPM’s credit. JPM will be stripped quietly while the Fed puts up limited amounts of more money behind the scenes.

    However this will not help it in London because the credit straight jacket will be against total US credit and nobody can do anything about the lines rolling off not being renewed. This credit squeeze will force JPM back to the COMEX and prevent its 24 hour worldwide management of silver particularly. The gold the market can still be managed but in silver the crisis will be felt first because the big holders Russia and China will demand a price that the US will not want to pay and the shorts are too large. This is not a Bunker Hunt scenario as Russia and China are silver buyers. If London pulls a short term scam on sales contracts a la Bunker Hunt all bets are off on all securities worldwide. The Chinese prosecutions and hangings of their bankers and security dealers are a message to the West not a “barbaric relic”.

    Hold onto your silver because as Dan Noricini says if there is a close above $19.00 it will soon challenge the recent contract high by which time JPM will out $8.0b not impossible to manage but a worry for any management given the drop in non-tied cash.

  25. Well said Anonymous, although I believe JPM and the Fed are one and the same. Although I think if silver can get through 18.90 it will take out the recent 19.20 high.

    I think there are already tremors being felt in the silver market in terms of physical shortages. Not necessarily silver eagles in this country, but delays in settling big contracts.

  26. @Dave in Denver
    if the comex paper price crashes like you and others believe it will, do you think its wise to have 1000oz silver bars since the paper comex exchange represents the trading of those types of bars?

    for instance if the paper price goes to $6 on the comex the 1000oz bar would have to reflect that price and same as the minning companies.

    with that said main st controls the coin market and even in the last silver downturn to $8, the coins were not going for anywhere near that price.

    whats your opinion on this?

  27. @Rob: when the paper price on the Comex crashes, the Comex will become irrelevant. The price will collapse because the Comex is unable to meet deliver demands and no one will care what happens on the Comex.

    When this happens, the physical/global price of silver will take off. You will be able to sell your 1000 oz. silver bars in any number of venues, including coin dealers like Tulving, who freely buys and sells 1000 oz bars now.

    When paper becomes ever more invalidated as a result of a Comex default, your physical silver will have even more value.

    Incidentally, so far for the month of January, the U.S. mint is on track to sell a record number of 1 oz. silver eagles.

  28. @Dave In Denver

    just trying to understand you analysis, if the comex will be irrelevant, why will the miners have to honor the paper price of the comex then since they are selling the real metal.

    i have a few silver comex bars and am just thinking of selling 1 and keeping the other one. i also have several 1oz silver coins so i feel i have an adequate amount of silver.

    one of the reasons why i want to sell it is i think in the short/mid term the paper price on the comex will start to collapse so thus the comex bar will also fall. although i know that there is always a buyer for this metal via a bullion bank/institution etc..but i feel like there is some risk to holding this bar so i want to trade 1 of them for gold coins which i feel will get more support in this paper collapse.

    i also feel that platinum has the same risks as silver because its precieved more of an industrial metal and wont get the backing of CB's. silver will get the backing of main st.

    btw, i have been reading your blog for a while and enjoy your posts on bill murphy's site also. keep up the great work for the pm community and thanks.

  29. Rob, thanks the feedback - I appreciate it.

    My view is eventually the physical/spot price of gold/silver will divorce from the comex price. Others have argued that this will hurt mining share values. My view is that mining shares will always reflect the global/spot price of gold. I think you confusion comes from the top comment in this thread, which is just reposting of an email someone sent me. I agree with the analysis w/regard to what is happening on the Comex and with the CFTC, but I don't agree that U.S. miners have to sell their gold a Comex prices.

    Unless you need the money, I would suggest that you hold onto both of your bars. You know that the value of the $ declines on a daily basis. And you know the price of silver is going to go a lot higher. You're better off keeping as much as you can in the metals.

  30. @Dave In Denver
    no i dont plan on exchanging it for money, i plan on exchanging it for gold coins and maybe a few more silver coins so just doing a swap....what do you think?

  31. Rob. Good. I like that idea. Either gold or silver. I think silver will outperform gold but the premiums for coins are going to move a lot higher over time. Check Tulving. He has the best bid prices OR you can list your bar on your local craigslist, as you might find someone who will pay you more that Tulving but less than what a local coin shop would charge him for the bar. On the other hand, Tulving might cut you a deal since you'll be swapping a bar for coins.

  32. @Dave In Denver
    im in canada so i can't use tulving as i have cheaper alternatives here.

    what i am seeing with silver is that the regular joe on ebay/craigslist isn't into 100oz or more silver bars and the 10oz bars there are still interest in(because the price isn't that high) with 1oz having the most interest and biggest premiums.

    if you are going to be in silver i have found that even at todays low prices that anything over 10oz and you will have problems selling when the price pop occurs (perhaps the dealer might buy it but it doesn't seem like main st will when the complete collapse occurs-the dalers will have no choice but to melt). liquidity is an issue for these sizes.
    as jim sinclair says, silver just doesn't have a big enough cash market.

    1000oz bars dont have nearly the same affect on main st because of the banks/institutions and you can almost say in some cases that the 100oz might fall into that category also but i wouldn't take the chance. this is very liquid because of the big buying interest.

    gold on the other hand doesn't have a price, its free and will not be subject to that no matter what the price or size is which is why it is the most liquid of all assets including government notes/cash of any currency. cb's are in control of this.

    this is one of the reasons why i want to exchange for gold because the paper collapse will be here, i know certainly gold will benefit but will silver have that same reaction. not saying it wont benefit over paper but it will not be the same as in gold.

    by doing this i am dropping my gold/silver physical ratio to healthier levels as i found i bought a lot when the ratio was in the 80+.

    i think i will keep a comex bar and wait and see.

  33. I agree with everything you say except that I think silver will benefit from the "poor man's gold" effect and will ultimately outperform gold. I agree that 1 oz. coins have more fungibility. Sure, small buyers won't be the best buyer for 1000 oz. bars down the road, but sovereign (mints) and private coin producers will have interest in bars, especially if they come with paperwork.

  34. i think that is what most silver holders are betting on and me included but there is risk to everything even in PM's.
    silver is going to suffer massively first from a paper collapse indicating that it is not MONEY at first but during this time the main st will be saying it is MONEY and will sell higher in the black market.
    main st will definetely control silver one day and just like CB's control the gold.
    i just feel that i need more of the lower risk scenario at this point. not sure what a good silver/gold ratio is but mine is in the 80's also. i want to bring that down to at least half.
    some people dont care about the ratio but look at the dollar value instead as a ratio.

    finally, i consider platinum holdings to be inbetween gold and silver. platinum isn't talked about much but it too has a liquidity issue. if silver benefits from a industry growth or scarcity issue rest assure that platinum will outperform gold big time aswell.
    it will not benefit from a monetary aspect though as gold will take that rein while silver does that for the avg joe. platinum will therefore just rise at the same pace as gold.

  35. btw what is your view on junk silver?
    i collect canadian silver dollars/morgans/peace dollars for the most part.

  36. I don't really have a specific view on junk silver other it's another form of silver. I prefer 1 oz silver eagles/maples. I may start buying some gold fractional coins because i think the premiums on those will get even wider as the price goes higher.

    I don't think much about platinum other than the Chinese are going to buy a lot for industrial purposes. It's not a monetary metal, so when gold/silver really take off because of monetary reasons, I'm not sure platinum will have much correlation other than the "commodity" component.

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